Władysław II Jagiello and Jadwiga reigned as co-monarchs; and though Jadwiga probably had little real power, she took an active part in Poland's political and cultural life. In 1387, she led two successful military expeditions to Red Ruthenia , recovered lands her father, Louis I of Hungary , had transferred from Poland to Hungary, and ...
Jogaila, later Władysław II Jagiełło (ca.1351/1361–1434), was a Grand Duke of Lithuania and from 1386 King Jadwiga's husband and jure uxoris King of Poland.In Lithuania, he held the title Didysis Kunigaikštis, translated as Grand Duke or Grand Prince (kunigaikštis is a cognate of König and king, and didysis magnifies it).
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Vladislav II of Serbia (c. 1280–1325), Serbian monarch Władysław II of Opole (c. 1332–1401), Duke of Opole Wladyslaw II Jagiello, a.k.a. Jogaila (1351–1434), Grand Duke of Lithuania and King of Poland
Vladislaus II, also known as Vladislav, Władysław or Wladislas (1 March 1456 – 13 March 1516; Hungarian: II. Ulászló ), was King of Bohemia from 1471 to 1516, and King of Hungary and Croatia from 1490 to 1516. As the eldest son of Casimir IV Jagiellon, he was expected to inherit Poland and Lithuania. George of Poděbrady, the Hussite ...
- Time For The F(A)Inal?
- Angevin Sickness?
- Władysław of Opole
- Pontoon Bridge Claim
- Audio Samples
- Request For Mediation
This article is a very good GA. There is not much standing between it and the FA status. What do you think we need to improve before it is FAced? From old discussions we all know that name was the stumbling point here, but I think we were making progress in agreeing that a variant combining both names (something like Jogaila (Władysław II Jagiello), while not perfect, would satisfy all concerned. Am I right on that? If so, and we can all agree on a final stable name, I believe a FA is within our reach without much work.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus |talk 12:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC) 1. I don't see that the naming issue would prevent a successful FA review. No move is going to take place without a debate, so it does not impact the stability of the article. I think the main focus needs to be on copyediting the article. There's no question that it is comprehensive, more or less balanced, and well-referenced, but I don't think it is quite there yet in terms of the prose style...
I'd like to ask about this sentence at the beginning: He was regent of Lithuania from 1377. Is that the right term? Lower down, it says that Algirdas was the Grand Duke of Lithuania...Jogaila's father was a de facto co-regent of Lithuania and ruled the country together with his brother, Kęstutis. The terms seem a little over-nuanced and contradictory: it looks to me rather as if Algirdas and Kęstutis were co-rulers, and that on Algirdas's death, Jogaila became co-ruler with Kęstutis in his father's place. Is that an oversimplification? Whatever the case, I doubt "regent" is the mot juste. qp10qp04:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure I grasp this term in the following, or its implication: Since for most of his subjects Jogaila was a hospodar rather than "didysis kunigaikštis",the adoption of Orthodox Christianity seemed more natural. The Wikipedia entry on hospodar wasn't too helpful to me on this. Is the point that his people in the Ruthenian lands regarded him as an overlord rather than a prince? If so, how does that affect the religious conversion point? (Was this something to do with the Patriarch of the Orthodox church being based in Moscow?) As far as I can gather from the footnote on didysis kunigaikštis, the term means a high ruler with lordship over lower rulers, so the distinction from hospodar isn't entirely clear to me. I need to find some plain English here, to offset the difficult non-English terms which might count as specialist jargon. For the moment, I have left this point out and concentrated on the point that Jogaila's mother would have been Orthodox. qp10qp22:00, 29 December 2006...
I've finished a thorough copy-edit and made my best efforts towards the "compelling prose" required for FA. I've cut about 1500 words from the article to make it more sprightly (in fact, more than that from the narrative text, since I've added an alphabetical references section), but there remain a similar number of notes and references, so the sum of information is much the same. I have a long list of details to research now in order to check and sharpen the article further: so I'll be posting some questions here as I go along, if anyone can help. I find Halibutt's referencing excellent; I've checked most of his references to English books and they pan out exquisitely, and so I'm sure his Polish and Lithuanian ones are just as reliable. In my opinion, this is a watertight FA candidate, except for (sighs)....the wretched title business. For me, "Jogaila (Wladyslaw II Jagiello)" would be perfect; but obviously the FA scrutineers will want to roast that old chestnut all over again. Qu...
I haven't had any luck sourcing the following, and so—with reluctance because it is melodramatic—I've removed it till some evidence surfaces: At first I just wanted a source for the notion that Jadwiga and her daughter might have died for this reason, but I couldn't even find a source for the 'Angevin sickness' itself. Nor could I find a source for the exhumations (which are mentioned in Jadwiga's article), the commentary on which might shed light on these speculations (though I would think it unlikely a narrow pelvis caused the deaths; infections etc. being only too common). If someone can find anything in the Polish sources or through superior research skills to mine, please do, and perhaps we can restore this intriguing note. qp10qp00:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC) 1. 1.1. The Angevin disease was briefly mentioned in Jasienica (op.cit., the English note was pretty much a translation of the mention in the Polish book), who however was by no means a doctor and only briefly mentioned the...
I removed the following note because I couldn't source it: Eventually Prince Władysław of Opolebecame Jogaila's godfather. I am sure it's true (because Władysław of Opole had been close to Jadwiga's father), but perhaps the source of the information lies in a Polish book. If any Polish editors can help, by all means do; but I have to say that I don't think this fact will be much of a loss to the article. The other thing bothering me was that in places this chap was described as a duke, not a prince. qp10qp02:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC) 1. 1.1. AAMoF the person of Jagiello's godfather is a tad problematic as at least two people are mentioned as such. Jasienica suggests it was Władysław, but there was some other candidate as well (bishop of Cracow, if memory serves me). As to the titles - the problem is easier to solve than you think. Polish (and hence Lithuanian) system of honorary titles is fairly simple, mostly because of the post-Jagiello times. In short, the division into dux and pr...
Angus further up this page quizzed the claim about the pontoon bridge. I have been able to find confirmation that the pontoon bridge was big, but I can't source the following note: It was one of the first uses of pontoon bridges in European warfare since the Battle of Garigliano, and the first by a European power since antiquity. I can't find where this comes from. Once again, it may be in a Polish book; if someone can reference it from one, all the better. In any case, even if a historian said it, the note verges on peacockery, in my opinion, and isn't strictly necessary to the article—though it would be nice to reinsert it if someone finds a source. For the moment, I've removed it. qp10qp03:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC) 1. 1.1. Good spotting! Indeed, the remark was unsourced primarily because... I couldn't remember what the source was. Some time ago I was writing a paper on military engineering in late Middle Ages and dug up several works in the Central Military Library in Warsaw. Howe...
I wonder what is the source for Władysław never learning Polish. As far as I remember Długosz (who was far from being sympathetic to Jagiello, to put it mildly), he mocked his fancy accent and errors, but that would mean that Jagiello did learn Polish... //Halibutt00:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC) 1. You're right. I think I misremembered what I read in the Lituanus article. I was going to double check that, because even as I wrote it, it didn't seem likely. (It actually says "He never became fluent in Polish".) Good call; I'll change it. qp10qp01:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I think the article would benefit from audio samples of "Jogaila" and "Władysław II Jagiełło", which would especially be good for a FAC. Olessi20:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
A mediation request concerning the naming of this article has been opened at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Jogaila. All interested editors should add themselves to the request, and sign acceptance. (You could add yourself and sign to reject, but that seems rather pointless). Angus McLellan (Talk)01:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC) 1. If this happens, the Mediation will be summarily rejected. Unless there is clear evidence that the refusals make mediation impossible, I will file with the Mediation Cabal, which is less particular about what it accepts. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC) 1.1. The Mediation request was rejected. It was accepted by a large number of editors, and ignored to death by one. There are multiple sides here, besides the Polish-Lithuanian issue. We could go back to the Mediation Committee with the eight of us who are interested, leaving Dr Dan to join us later if he likes; or we could invoke the Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal. Which? Septentrionalis P...